Can You Pass The Serving Test?

Thanks for the good advice. I was just wondering why the "elbow" area was not included in the good areas. It is often recommend. The long serve to this zone, with some speed often "handcuffs" the opponent. The long fast to the corners seems to work against the opponents that can not move, but not the ones that have the good leg work. The deep serve to the elbows and midsection seem to be more effective on all players. I find it eventually forces the opponent to move back, which then sets him up for a shore serve. Your thoughts.

Thanks

Mike

Good points Michael.  I think the elbow area is a good area to serve to as long as it is fast to not allow your opponent time to move and play a strong ball.

Hi Alois,

Great advise as always! Thanks!

Although could you further elaborate the potential trade-offs/disadvantages of short serves? When facing equally skilled or advanced opponents who are able to push aggressively with wide angles or even flick on command? That said, is serving short to the opponents backhand a no-no?

And lastly, is a half-long serve superior than a "short" short serve, tactically?  

Thanks! 

My regular training partner didn't show up again today.  So I spent a good deal of time practicing serves. Then someone came that I know from other times there.  So we played a little.  Short serves seem to be what I do best now.  Having some trouble with long serves, but, a few weeks ago playing with my regular training partner I served so many short serves that when a long one came to him he really didn't know what to do with it.

Hi Richard,

Short serves when not low with variation of spin can open up the table for your opponent and allow them to attack.  However, if you work on the short serves they will allow you to adopt the attacking position first in the rally.  The Half long serve is also very effective.  As long as the second bounce is on the table this can be more effective than the short short serve because it has your opponent further away from the net when they make their return.

Hi Harlan,

Good to hear you are working on your serves.  A late training partner is usually a perfect opportunity for this.

A long serve as a variation can be deadly for sure but it is the surprise factor that has the effect.

These are some very very impressive tips. I will take this test and hopefully my service will improve immediately and can be able to win more points with my serves

I'm doing a fair amount of serve training but I find it difficult for especially the short backspin serve to bring it effectively to my games. Somehow it always ends up a little too high with not too much spin and a bit too long as well.

I'll try your metric though.

Test results:

50 forehand backspin serves from backhand side (half pendulum, half high toss).

Success if: double bounce, noticeable backspin, not too high

Session 1: 41/50

Session 2 (after a long training session): 32/50

Most failed attempts were net. Sometimes the ball bounced only once.

BUT, when my coach later observed the serves he found there was not much spin on them. He wants me to concentrate on spin first, by applying a fast wrist action at the contact moment. Also, I should overcompensate for dropping the bat pendulum style. As it is, there is too much side spin and not enough backspin on the ball.

Good one Dieter.

Initially there will be a trade off between short and spin.  That is OK, keep focusing on both at different times and eventually they will come together.

To generate less sidespin, tilt the end of your bat up so that the bat is more parallel to the ground.

But somehow I think if the opponent is really good, with a short serve, he gets a much larger variety of angles to place his response. In contrast to a fast serve to the corners?

At the higher levels if you serve long even if it is wide you will get the ball come back at you really fast.

Thanks. I will keep on working on the short serves and flicking.

Great, let me know how it goes.

Hi Alois, I'm useless at table tennis but I'm good at English. Please fix your constant use of 'practicing'. Sure we all need practice. But when we are practising something it has an 's'. Check it out. 

Sorry to be boring. 

John

Hey John,

Sorry about that, clearly I need to improve my English. I've updated the spelling. 

Hi Alois, thanks for the great tips as always!  

Just curious though, what are your thoughts also on serving strategies agaisnt specific opponents? Such as:  

1) Players who play with the opposite hand to us e.g. Right-handed vs. Left-handed

2) Players with consistent over-the-table backhand banana flick

3) Players with long pips (on either side of the blade) 

4) Penhold players with consistent RPB (Reverse Penhold Backhand) over and away from the table  

Thanks! 

Hi Richard,

I think each individual player comes with different weaknesses, but it is a matter of finding them and then finding something that you can do to exploit that weakness.

Against the Banana Flicker, you can serve more to their forehand corner and even just slightly longer.  The Banana flick is easier when the ball is short.

We also have a Match Strategy section that goes through ideas against different styles of opponent in detail.

Although I play at a low level, I do have various serving tactics against certain types of opponents:

• the lefty: the usual variations with the pendulum serve will nearly all go into their comfort zone. Therefore I will use more backhand serves and tomahawk serves that curl into their body. I may inject a few pendulums that curl outward so that they're not too comfortable standing in their backhand corner.
• the long pipper: no side spin, since you get reverse spin back and that is even harder to wrap your brain around than reversing back- or topspin. So the usual tactic here is to serve with moderate backspin into their pips and get moderate topspin back, then attack. The serve can be of plain length, for they will usually not attack it. Short serves tend to come back short with even less speed and it's not so easy to attack then.
• the short pipper: here it's a little different; short pippers can attack, so heavy backspin serves are better; they will come back with a low amount of backspin and can be attacked by opening up aggressively; I find short pippers the hardest to serve against
• at my level, I do not encounter banana flickers or RPB's
• I do encounter the blocker; they're usually close to the table, using my speed and converting it with placement; short serves are not very effective here and I will use long serves into the body or towards the extremes; as with long pippers, blockers rarely attack long balls so there is little risk in sending them wide; against blockers, slow topspins are key but it's not easy to engineer them from the serve, so I usually go with placement

John Legg, i never knew about that differance in spelling, Practice vrs Practising. This Ping Skills never ceases to amaze me with what you can take away from it. The question and answer section could be renamed Life Skills.. You never know what members are going to throw on the table, i love it. Dean

Amazing !  thank's Jeff and Alois for sharing these skills, although it is overwhelming for me trying to remember everything. However, you have given me more confidence and challenge to try to be better!! Since I was becoming discouraged trying to advance with the stronger players so that I can compete against them. I set my limit until the end of the year since my club is so competitive.

Just keep working hard at improving your own ability Kathy.

The service I mostly use is a short, low over the net service with massive backspin. Especially in doubles this keeps the opponent(s) from getting the initiative immediately.

Hi Jeff, I have worked on my serves ever since my last post under this thread.

So far I've been able to serve short consistently especially the half-long serves (second bounce right on/close to the end line) with spin/no spin variations. 

Questions:

(1) What are the potential weaknesses/disadvantages of half-long serves that we need to be aware of? 

(2) After the half-long serve, what would be the ideal ready distance to have between ourselves and the table to receive the 3rd ball?  

Thanks! 

Hi Richard,

The issue with the half long serve is sometimes you may stray long and invite the open by the receiver.

Like with every shot your movement depends on where your ball goes and then also be aware of the likely response by the receiver. Be ready for the attack but the most important thing is to be ready and track the ball.

Thank you so much. I was just complimented by an advanced player of how much I had improved. However ,  he did advise me to keep my ball lower so that I would not invite smash. Although sometimes when I try low balls my ball goes into the net.   why do advanced players play the ball high!! Confusing.

Great to hear.

Advanced players are playing with a lot of topspin and hitting the ball fast even though it is going high.  The topspin brings the ball down quickly.

Our club has an outer city tournament this Sat. Decided to try to compete  in doubles matches. Somewhat anxious hoping I remember all the  correct maneuvers. Hope I don't fail and lose to the other club. Thank's for all your advise pingskills!!

Somehow I seem unable to "unfollow" these questions.

I'm now trying by adding another comment and uncheck the follow box.

Hopefully that will work for you Dieter.

Your advice is something I look forward too every time it arrives in my in box. My biggest problem with my serve is failure to put it in play.  Seems that in the heat of the battle I lose focus and serve into the net WAY too often.  Free points to my opponent is a killer.  Thank you again for your videos.

Was able to score a few points serving short. Won 2 games but no matches at tournament playing doubles against a strong outside team.  However,  I am improving and feeling more confident. Enough to start being serious playing singles. Thank you both for your kind encouragement!! 

Greta to hear of the improvement.  You are definitely keen.

Hi,

I have been learning to serve a forehand backspin serve short as you suggested.  My serves at the moment are pretty erratic, with a good percentage having good backspin (they backup the table towards me), but failing to go over the net.  When the ball does go over the net it usually bounces at least twice, and quite often does not reach the end of the table or backs up towards the net.  On a couple of occasions I have had the ball bounce back over the net!

I have a couple of questions:

1. Is it a good thing for the ball to bounce more than twice, or should I try to limit the bounces on the opponents side too two?
2. Secondly if the ball bounces over the net, and then bounces straight back over the net (i.e. one bounce on the opponents side of the table) is this a legal serve, and would I need to return it, or would I win the point because my opponent failed to play a stroke?

Hi Rob,

1. Often the best short serve is one where the second bounce is close to the end of the table. This is because it makes it harder for your opponent to return it short, and because it makes them have to decide if the ball is actually going to come long or not. 
2. You need to hit the ball otherwise your opponent wins the point.

No worries Rob. Let us know how you get on.

Hi Jeff,  some of the players question the 80percent short balls since the opponents would be always ready for short balls.  is the key to surprise and mix it with various serves.  Thanks.

Now I saw what you said about different spin serves!  although I am not proficient enough yet!!  thanks

Hi Kathy,

If long serves are effective against an opponent then keep using them. :) Generally though as you play better players they will attack your long serves and hence short serves are more effective. You do need to keep varying the spin, speed, and placement of your serves though for them to remain effective.

Thank you Jeff!

Table tennus master at table tennis university recently had a post about three reasons not to serve short.. do you want to look at that

We will have a look  Thanks.

does timo boll have bad footwork

I think his footwork is very good.

but everytime i see him play he does a stroke and his opponent hits it and he is just out of position and can do nothing about his opponent's shot also hes never really won any major title.

who do you think is the best tt player?

He is quite old now.  
In his career, he won:
6 Europeans Mens single championships,
5 European Top 12 events,
18 Pro Tour events,
1 Pro Tour Grand Final,
2 World Cups,
Semi final and a quarter final of the World championships
Quarter final of the Olympics.  

That is a great career.

do you think jan ove waldner would be able to beat ma long if he were around ma long's age?

Unfortunately I don't think so.  I think Ma Long is an incredible level.  However, I do think that Waldner is the best player of all time because of what he could do with a ball.  If he was born now I think he would have developed his game to a higher level.

John Legg commented...

on the 25-May-2016 06:41:39 PM

Hi Alois, I'm useless at table tennis but I'm good at English. Please fix your constant use of 'practicing'. Sure we all need practice. But when we are practising something it has an 's'. Check it out.

....

... as a matter of fact, the main difference is on where are you from...!!?

I struggle at TT with a little or no progress as well, but it is much easier for me bettering myself in English... so;

"Care should be taken with the use of the words practice and practise as there are differences in British and US usage. Practice is the correct spelling for the noun in both British and US English and it is also the spelling of the verb in US English. However, in British English the verb should be spelled practise. "(Oxford Dictionary)...

...but that is a whole different matter. Let us focus on table tennis...

Geez, this is a ticky tacky attack on a guy that is giving us FREE and excellent advice.  Cut him some slack and give him an Atta Boy instead of a semi kick in the "package".  I am pretty sure you were just making an observation, not a big deal.  Serve on!!