Rubbers

Table Tennis Equipment

Last updated 3 years ago

D K

D K Asked 3 years ago

Greetings Team,

this question is more to PingSkills community than only to PingSkills Team:

Have you or anyone here ever tested following rubbers at ALL or DEF+ blade?:

Donic Coppa (any version,but preferably the slower and spinnier ones,compare to Rakza7Soft,the most similar ones)

Victas 401 (thick sponge)

Butterfly Feint II and Feint III (not OX)

I would be happy to know your opinions on these rubbers.
THanks

DK


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario Answered 3 years ago

Hi DK,

Hopefully some of our readers can help you.


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Thoughts on this question

Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

Hi DK.  I'm using Victas VS401 currently.  I haven't used the others you mention so cannot compare them but my take on the Victas is this:

It is a very (very) heavy rubber.  Too heavy, I think.  In fact it is the heaviest I've used in any thickness.  For example, I only have 1.5 mm black on the BH and it is heavier that a 2.0 mm Mark V.  I use only red 1.8mm VS401 on the FH but that is heavier than a 2.0 mm H3 and a 2.2 LKT/KTL.

It is a hard rubber.  Harder I think than the user rating of 8.5 on revspin.  The combination of the hardness and the particular sponge also generates a really loud 'crack' when hitting hard, especially flat hitting.

It spins like a whirlwind - crazy spin. I can generate more spin with it than I can with Mark V (all variants, except the super soft '30'), H3, Xiom Vega (several variants), Friendship 729, LKT Torrent and Pro.  I don't chop a lot but given how much extra spin I get on the loop, I reckon it would be a chopper's dream rubber.

It has a low throw angle (not medium) and I love this because I tend to loop and block the ball high. With this, and a recently improved technique, I get low fast loops that have a big, fast but low kick.

I posted a more detailed review on revspin - check it out.

I'm going to try a different Victas, probably the 01 - much lighter, slightly softer and an even lower throw angle, or maybe the 01 Stiff (slightly higher throw and a bit more balanced).  According the Victas though, the 401 is the one for defenders/choppers.

Cheers

 


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Although being unaware which one is yours,but I have read RevSpin entries.

Can I ask what blade are you using with it?

I am currently using Rakza7Soft and am afraid that Victas 401,which would certainly help my chopping,will
a)have less spin
b)be more dead,I mean like....I need slow,low loop with massive spin from long distance. And I am afraid Victas will fall down if I attempt to loop heavily from 5 metres behind the table from the knee level.
c)weaken my blocking due to lower speed,also weaken my backhand inverted play,even now with Rakzas I use bigger swing to get it over the net.
d)cause problems with too low throw,as my  Victas Matsushita blade is already very low-throw.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Regarding the b) I mean simply if I swing up,the ball should go up as well as forward even if I decide for no power ball.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Rohan,if you are still following this question,could we establish an email contact?

(Pingskills Team,this site really lacks some chat)


Benzene Chiral

Benzene Chiral Posted 3 years ago

Hmmmmmm, I've not used any of those rubbers or blades you were asking... can't help you...


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Understood.
I am waiting for Rohan as he seems to be able.


Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

Sorry DK, I lost track of this discussion.  I use the Victas on a light-weight, ALL balsa combo blade.  In response to your concerns:

a) I doubt you'd lose any spin.  The Victas is a spin machine but you may need to adjust your technique to suit the harder sponge.

b) You can get massive spin playing the ball before or after the peak.  Your blade choice will have an influence on whether you'll be able spin better on the ascending or falling ball.

b & c) The Victas is actually pretty quick (in 1.8 mm on my FH) and although I don't like getting more than about 2.5 to 3.0 metres from the table, I can hit some pretty quick killer loops from back there. The 1.5 mm on my BH is surprisingly fast in flat hits and blocks and I can perform some lightening fast Harimoto backhands with it.  It is so quick that I don't think I could control anything more than 1.8 mm. Using the Victas with a balsa blade, my stroke is necessarily shorter and faster so I'm not sure how it would respond to a longer, slower stroke - being harder, you may lose some dwell time with that type of stroke compared to what you are used to with a soft sponge.

d) I can't really help here other than to confirm it is definitely a lower throw on the same blade that Mark V and Xiom Vega Pro.  Whether that would cause issues or just require a minor adjustment in you stroke, I don't know.

At 36 Euro a side, it's a bit expensive to take a gamble (although I did LOL) so you might be better sticking with something you know, or can try first.

Good luck.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

OK...HMM.
I use Victas Koji Matsushita blade,which is firm and stiff blade.
Balsas are much more lively (Joola Eagle Fast,Yinhe Galaxy T-9 and also Defplay Sensor-all balsas).

a)That can be.
Currently I use Rakza7Soft which has 30° hardness if I remember well. Though,the fact also is that I mostly create spin with topsheet,without sponge.

b)Being used to loop far after the peak,I am afraid I will not have enough spinny firepower if a long weak ball comes.

c)Then I am not sure which thickness....You use faster and springier blade than me.
Though,I am with my slower blade,chopping with Rakza7Soft. Now it is 2.0,but I have played with MAX sponge and feel no significant difference.
Do you think that MAX Rakza7Soft is faster than your 1.8 Victas,if you are able to compare it at the same blade?

d)That would be extreme....Not sure if I should not buy the 2.0 in the end...to counteract the low throw in looping.
Better said,I wonder how Victas 401 2.0 behaves on the same blade compared to 2.0 Rakza7soft.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Major point: I already tested Victas 401 on my blade,but it was a piece that was already 5 years!! used by elder spin-oriented player. The speed looked about 80% of my Rakza7Soft.
So i am only not sure about the thickness now.
Rohan,you havent tested 2.0?

(Note: i need to know the speed of a spinny stroke,not a speed of hard flat hit)


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

To be more accurate:http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/ivysilani/10166708888-stolni-tenis/216251000780331-tj-slavoj-severotuk-usti-n-l-tj-sokol-pp-hradec-kralove
See this at about 22:00
There is a lefthanded man in blue.
He uses a loop like I want.
I would like to know if Victas enables it.
That man uses slow thick CHinese rubber,I think it is elder Friendship or DHS


Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

DK, if you intend staying with your Victas Koji Matsushita blade, I think the 401 would be too hard, even in 2.0 or 2.2 mm.  It is a hard rubber to be sure.  On a hard blade it would give very little dwell time so is unlikely to suit looping a deeply descending ball.  The Victas Limber rubbers are rated as softer but I haven't tried either. The Rakza7 soft is, by comparison a pretty soft rubber so you would be going from one extreme to the other.

I haven't used Rakza7 Soft but can tell you that plain old Rakza 7 is faster, softer and lighter than the Victas 401.  Where the Victas wins is in spin and control. I imagine the R7Soft would also be faster than the Victas but still with less spin.

I've not tried either in the 2.0 mm thickness as that would be too thick on a balsa blade.

Looping from far back can be tricky - deciding if you want a low flight and low kick (but higher risk) or a higher flight, higher kick (but more safety).  If you prefer the later, and this is a stroke you play a lot, I'd suggest to not go with the V401.  I think the combination of low throw blade and low throw rubber would require a more vertical and faster, lifting stroke than you are perhaps comfortable with.  I'd be looking for a tacky Chinese rubber instead. On the other hand, if the long loop is only an occassional shot and you also need powerful mid-distance loops, then the V401 could work very well - giving you excellent chopping and fast looping.

I'll look at the video tonight (in about 10 hours) and comment then.

Cheers


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

The Victas blade is the best for my game I have tried so far.

Well....what pulls me to trying this rubber is the fact that with it,I would have a complete bat invented by my idol,Matsushita Koji-sama.

I do not care about weight too much,as heavier bat would give me more power.

My blade is not balsa.
It is composed from hard wood.

Well,I prefer the later one,but I like vertical hits.
I love lifting actions while attacking.

Also,if I loop,I loop against strongshots from distance.

OK,thanks

Dan


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

To compare: I have TSP Curl P4 Chop -long pimple rubber said to be invented with cooperation with Koji Matsushita.
My blade,Victas Koji Matsushita,is a blade that was also made in cooperation with him,even in three variants (VKM DEF,VKM,VKM OFF)
If I gained control over Victas VS 401,which was,according to many sites "tested by Matsushita himself to perfection",I would have a complete bat "from" him.
I know it will not give me his abilities,but it is a psychological motivation.
That is why I hope....

(PS there are even chopping shortpips said to be invented in cooperation with Matsushita)


Nigel C

Nigel C Posted 3 years ago

DK, sounds like to me you won't be happy until you try the 401 rubber. I'd like to say it's just a phase but i was the same except it was vega pro....and I'm still using that. Good luck.


Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

I think Nigel is right Dan.  You clearly want to so, if the cost isn't a deterrent, give it a go.  I assume you are only changing your FH rubber and retaining the pips on the BH.  In that case, I would definitely try the 2.0 mm.  I still think you might be better considering one of the softer Victas variants so the change from the very soft R7S to the new rubber isn't so great. The Victas 15 Limber is much lighter (important at 2.0mm thickness) and softer than the 401 but offers the same/similar spin potential, by all accounts.

I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts once you've given it a bit of time.

Cheers


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Nigel,you are right that I am attracted by this rubber for more thanyear.

Rohan,the cost is quite big for me.
Though,I am in a situation where it is very probably that I will lose team,I will be forced to stop playing competitively and additionally,I will lose the access to all tournaments as I would need to be a part of a team, thus I will play for joy only.
I will probably no longer need good performance,and I love rubber/blade testing.

I know about Limber.
Most powerful defender of my country uses Limber 1.8.

OK :)


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

PS:Yes,I am only changing FH rubber,because my current Rakza7soft is already torn


Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

That's a shame about the team.  I hope it doesn't happen but if it does, have fun with the equipment testing.  At least you'd be able to swap and change without worrying about affecting tournament play.

 


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

That is why I decided to do it now.
My team is goingto play its last season due to many players leaving our team as futureless.
We do not have enough training quality,only two tables,too little interest....And our leisure centre,our "owner" will be closed down.
That is already 100% sure.
This is our last year and I will be the only one stable player.
If from four players I should be the only one getting points....we can still never win,so why should I play that good...


And due to my bad reputation,no other team is probably going to accept me.

I have already ordered a sheet...I am so curious,nervous,I cant wait.


Benzene Chiral

Benzene Chiral Posted 3 years ago

Bad reputation? Why?


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Well,I do not want to spam the question with it (given that if I remember well,we two were in contact at Facebook via triple chat with Aniketh Danam),but I think I can tell you briefly:

1)I am hated as a player due to my holding-back nature. I mean: most players in my region value force and agressivity over spin and tactics. Thus many hate me because I do not want to attack with high-risk fullpower flat bombs as soon as possible. Many players here follow a pattern "Rather do a flat fullpower bomb that misses than a weaker,spinny,controlled shot that lands."
2)Then there are some players who follow the opinion "you do not need skill to win with longpips".
3)I am hated as a sparring as most players are bored by playing against me,either because they bomb my pips away immediately,thus I am too easy for them,or they make errors all the time against my pips,thus I am too hard for them.
4)Many teams include at least one woman. I am hated by women.


Benzene Chiral

Benzene Chiral Posted 3 years ago

Well, I deleted Facebook. 


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Ah,OK.
Then you can contact me at great-polis@seznam.cz if you want to discuss more.
I do not want to spam this thread with something not related.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Good news: I just glued the Victas VS 401.
Regarding spin,it seems like the spin is far above my Rakza7Soft. Feels very "wooden" at impact.
Lets see how it will behave on table tomorow..


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

(better said,the Lady from the shop,powerful player,glued it,and I kissed both of her golden hands thankfully :) )


Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

What colour and thickness did you choose DK?


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

I have 2.0 black

Just 4 hours till first table test :))))))) So excited.
The ping-pinging the ball on bat went very well.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

I am after the first on-table test with Victas VS 401.
I havent played on the table since 18th June,so I was really expecting messy play with anthing.

The first strokes surprised me how it kept LOW,LOW,F**KING LOW under almost any circumstances.
It was said to be very heavy rubber,but I did not feel anything.
The flat hits seemed a bit "soft" although the rubber is very hard.
When I tried smashing,I realised how slow the Victas is compared to Rakza.
Also,i needed to open my bat much more and I was very sensitive to spin while smashing high balls with heavy spin and no speed.
Though,my backhand hits were now much stronger than forehands.


Service went really bad,but I do not think it is caused by the rubber.
As I said,I havent held a bat since 18th June so it was a bit of shock.

Pushing went perfectly,LOW,LOW,LOW.
It even kept low even if I purposefully attempted to perform a high push.
Also tons of spin.

Looping was uncomfortable due to big pause,but it seems like it will be quite powerful looping rubber as many balls went behind the table.
I must say I hit a loooot of edges of bat.
Maybe the extra weight affects my strokes despite I do not feel the weight itself.


Chopping was a dream.
No spin chops,heavyspin chops....almost all went in or into the net.
Again,LOW,even aginst smashes and high spinny loops,where I always had problems.
At long range play it overally took a while to adapt to a big slowdown compared to Rakza7Soft.
Though I can say that when I take off the "I am not used to it" effect and the fact that I havent played for so long time,I think I can say I gained complete control over the rubber.

Also lobbing was dreamy,extreme spin,extreme precision: I was able to hit any spot.


Rohan Keogh

Rohan Keogh Posted 3 years ago

So, over all, it sounds like you might be pleased with the rubber ...  Yes?


Nigel C

Nigel C Posted 3 years ago

DK, it will be even better then when you are used to it. Good to hear you are enjoying it.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Yea.
Though,I am quite missing the catapult effect.
That is the only thing so far I do not like about the rubber.

Today I had more chances to play with it,so I was able to get deeper.
As I expected,my attacking skills weakened considerably.
Though,my variation has increased and I could use it to my advantage.


D K

D K Posted 3 years ago

Test completed.

The worst part is service and off position looping.
Otherwise I am pleased by the rubber :)

Once again,my choice was proven correct.



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