Spinny low topspin

Table Tennis Strokes and Technique

Last updated 1 week ago

Ardak :)

Ardak :) Asked 3 weeks ago

Hi, coach!

When I do push, opponent returns it by spinny low topspin. How to return it? I return high spinny topspins by smash but I can't smash when it is low. Almost all of my blocks went of the table. What do you suggest? 


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario Answered 3 weeks ago

Hi Ardak,

For this kind of ball start with the blocking option.  The ball can be difficult when it is low.  We have a tutorial on how to deal with this kind of ball.

Take a look at Counter a Slow Spinny Topspin.  I think this will help.

 


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Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 3 weeks ago

Hi, coach!

In this video, topspin is much higher and much slower. It was not hard to return such topspin. After 3-4 tries, I managed to return such topspins in a match in the past. Yesterday, my opponent's topspin was much lower and faster but spinny. It was very hard to adjust. I tried to block with soft hands, tried to decrease contact time but no result. It was difficult to apply such techniques because of the speed and trajectory of the ball. The ball bounced from the table very horizontal, not as in the tutorial.

I think I have to work on the soft block. Since the ball bounces horizontal from table, what must be the angle of the racket? 


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 3 weeks ago

I think the angle of the racket needs to be more open and yes the softer hand will help.  Think about pushing the ball forward.  Don't try to hit the ball too hard because it is so low.


Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 3 weeks ago

Thank you, coach! 

 


Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 3 weeks ago

Hi, coach!

Yesterday my opponent's topspin was very similar to Jun Mizutani's topspin at the moment 3:17 in the video below, also at 2:58.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MuotxOtIdw

I noticed that against such heavy topspins pro players usually counter by topspin. But it seems very difficult to get in ready poosition, it needs very good footwork and ton's of practice. 


Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 3 weeks ago

Yesterday I realized that I can't do short push or heavy push... I think it may be result of 5 ply wood. With 7 ply wood I had never have push problems, opponents never did topspins such comfortably vs my pushes. Maybe I have never played such skilled player until yesterday. He returned almost every pushes by topspin comfortably.  I am disappointed  in myself... 


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 3 weeks ago

Being able to counterspin the low topspin is something that you should aim towards doing.  It is however a very advanced skill to be able to get the timing and contact just right to make this shot consistently.  The better option initially is to block the ball.  Try to contact the ball at its highest point.  Even though it is bouncing low it will still be above net height at some stage after it bounces.  Block the ball forward and with soft hands to get the ball on.

The ability to short push may have something to do with the blade.  However also focus on keeping your hand relaxed and take the ball as early off the bounce as you can.


Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 3 weeks ago

Thank you, coach!

Yes, I need to learn first blocking. To learn countering is almost impossible for me now. I just said to say it, said what exists, shared what I noticed.

I will try to learn short push with my new 5 ply wood. I noticed that the movemets when I do short push with heavy 7 ply wood doesn't work for light 5 ply wood.

Thank you! 


D K

D K Posted 3 weeks ago

Ardak,the number of plies cannot affect the technique that hard and only true equipment experts could tell the difference using this.
The equipment which affects the technique the most is the rubber surface.
Ardak,I am watching your questions for longer time. I think you give too much importance to the equipment.
The techniques detailed in Alois' video on countering the spinny loop are general for all types of loops-but the angles are a matter of experience and the ability to read the game. (But I have to admit that some of the example loops are a bit too high for demonstration in my opinion,Alois :) )

Of course you will make errors at first. Everyone does.
But with more practise you will be able to estimate the angles better.

Ardak,have you done any change to your rubbers when you changed wood?


Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 2 weeks ago

Hi, D K!

 

Thank you for interest. I want to explain all my problems :) 

 

 

Yes, true, I give too much importance to the equipment. When I play with different blades, I feel big difference in my strokes. Difference in speed, spin, control.

 

With some light 5 ply off and off- blades I do better topspins. For example, I played with  primorac, korbel, butterfly boll offensive, ball allround, waldner senso carbon, stiga classic offensive, donic persson exclusive off. With these types of blades I can change quickly from BH to FH and vice versa. I can play faster. But blocks are not consistent, pushes are not spinny.

 

With heavy blades which has good control my block game and push game shines. For example, stiga clipper wood, stiga CC7, yasaka ma lin carbon. With these blades I can do powerful loops, but hard to recover to next strokes. Difficul to change from BH to FH and vice versa. Difficult to react to some fast balls to the corners. 

There are also  category of blades that I can't play. That are bad in all aspects for me. 

Yes, I know it is not good to give too much importance to equipment. I know I need to focus on the technique. But I am impatient. For me it is very annoying when I am playing with a blade which I don't like.  I even wanted to give up TT couple times because of the blades. 

Now, last one month, I am playing with 5 ply light offensive blade. It is one of the best 5 ply woods I have tried. It is not spinny, not best for blocking but it is fast, light and has good control. I feel it is good for improving technique. I will try to adjust to this blade 3-4 months. If it doesn't become annoying, then I will continue with it. If it bothers me, if it makes me hate playing TT, then I will change it... 

 

About rubber, I tried many rubbers, with new blade, with old blade. And tried many blades with old rubbers and new rubbers. Usually I don't change blade and rubber at the same time. 


D K

D K Posted 2 weeks ago

I used to think like that too,although I havent changed equipment that often.
I do not know how much time did yo uactually spend changing equipment,but the general fact is that changing equipment every few months actually prevents you from getting used to your equipment.

Also,as far as I know,blades only rarely affect spin. Try to stick with one equipment with at least half year. That should be the minimal time to get used to equipment,depending on how often you train,am I right Alois?

From my own experience,I needed about 5 months to get used to equipment change. But instead of thinking like "how can I change my equipment to get my strokes better" I started to think like "What can I change at my technique to adjust to the equipment".

Here,I personally consider it important to know yourself as a player.
I am not a coach,here Alois and Jeff could provide better insight,but I can provide details from my own equipment path,as equipment IS important-though really not that important as you think.
I am a chopper defender,I aimed to become one from my earliest years when i first saw Koji Matsushita play.
OK,I understood that modelling like this is useless for you,as you are just trying to play as well as you can.
Though,the analysis can be applicable. I will limit it to my inverted rubber as you are presumably a dual-inverted user.

I will start in a time where I already had some technique and identifiable style.
At that time,I was using YinHe BalsaCarbon T-9 blade. That is a very light blade with different speeds on forehand and backhand,and the Rakza 7 Soft in MAX size. As most of my strokes went out of the table,I attempted to slow down even more and changed to Donic Defplay Senso,one of the slowest blades on the market,if not the slowest one at all. But although my chopping quality increased,loop quality decreased. And most strokes still were going out. I slowed down even more,switching to Butterfly Tackiness Drive. I was able to push greatly with it-but that was all,still most balls went out.
Then I destroyed the bat in an attempt to lift a backspin from the opponent,making a hole through the entire bat by the table corner.

I ultimately decided for faster blade Victas Koji Matsushita and slower rubber Victas VS 401,which ias one of the most suitable for my style.
I already use it for several years.
But through backward analysis I learned two things:
1)Notice that with ANY equipment the balls went out. WHY? Bad technique. After the last change,I focused a lot on my technique during the "getting used period". After a year and half of training,I got a chance to get to some bat testing. I had the chance to test out several bats,even including setup I used as  my original one. Surprisingly,I was able to control even the fastest blades to ,I would say,expectable extent (given that I am defender). Of course,the speed difference was very harsh,and there were multiple other problems related to the fact that I am a chopper. I found that I can play to about 80% my normal level with even my original bat,which I always deemed low-control.

2)Also,I learned how to adjust to the each bat.
The blade affects control,the blades have different control,but one thing is that everyone has different taste. Also,since the rubbers also affect control,these two can be balanced.
BUT all pro blades-and what you named out ARE pro blades-have certainly HIGH level of control. Meaning,the control differences between them are quite small.
The adjustments related to pro equipment is only made by changing ANGLES and SPEEDS.
If you need to drastically change any other thing after equipment change,I would say that there is some bigger technical flaw.

What do you, Coaches think?


D K

D K Posted 2 weeks ago

And regarding knowing yourself as a player....

Myself analysis:
I am a chopping defender,who is not able to swing too fast. That is why too slow bat did not work: I needed to use huge and fast strokes.
I also push a lot,so I needed to increase the contact time on slow movement. That is why too fast bats did not work.
Though,I rarely loop,so I could sacrifice some firepower,but not ALL firepower.
I even more rarely block. But what in fact is a block? Block in its simplest form means only a few more than just inserting a bat into ball's path with correct angle. That can be done with any inverted bat.

You need to know what your style is,what do you usually do,and focus the bat on what is your strength,but without worsening your weaknesses.
I have chosen a bat which supports my defensive strokes,but which does not limit my offense too much.
I am not qualified to tell exactly where is your problem,apart from that you seem to subconsciously believe that your equipment plays for you on its own.
I also havent seen you play,so hard to tell.
If you tell me your exact setup,I may be able to emit some more details.


Ardak :)

Ardak :) Posted 2 weeks ago

Hi, D K!

I was also a chopper when I was playing with non_professional racket. 

My first pro racket was very fast. That time I didn't know that bats can be fast or slow. The Blade was stiga CC7 which is off++. It was very powerful if not the most powerful blade. Rubbers were tenergy 05 :))) Then I transformed from chopper to a blocker :). I played with this racket 2 years until it was stolen.

Then I played with primorac  with tenergy 05fx rubbers 1.5 years. Then I realized that blades can be fast or slow.

Then I tried many rubbers and blades. 

Now my current equipment is one of the best that satisfies me. It is my current opinion. It can change after some time. Blade is butterfly boll offensive, fh rubber is tenergy 05fx, bh rubber is tibhar mx-s.

I am trying to adjust this setup. It is not annoying unlike some bad blades with poor control. 

Thank you for your trying to help!

Best wishes. 

 


D K

D K Posted 1 week ago

While having no experience with Boll blades,I know Tenergy and MX-S to some extent.
MS-S is certainly a great blocking rubber,whereas Tenergy is rather active offense rubber.
Medium speed blade with faster rubbers-quite good combination.



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