Loops against short pimple rubber

Table Tennis Strokes and Technique

Last updated 11 years ago

Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Asked 11 years ago

Hello there :)

 

I started to play tournaments with a lot of defensive players and funny rubbers. I have troubles in starting an attack against balls returned by short pimples. Usually they are slow and with enough of back spin so my loop ends in net. The same goes for opponent's chops with smooth rubber and heavy back spin. The opponents often use short pimples for serve return and to slow down the ball. They usually attack only after forcing me to error when I play high over the net. That's because I often quit my loop and helplessly bounce the ball over. I'm a skilled player, I play against offensive players for almost 20 years now. I just decided to challenge myself with defensive style, it is great for increasing the patience at least. :)

So, how to loop against long back spin balls returned by short pimples?

Thank you in advance for your answers :)


Jeff Plumb

Jeff Plumb Answered 11 years ago

Hi Ivan,

With short pimples, your opponent can generate some spin but not as much as if they were using normal rubber. So if you push the ball and they push it back, you need to attack the ball with a forehand topspin and make sure you brush the ball.

Take a look at our video on the Forehand Topspin Off Backspin. This will be still be applicable against a push with the short pimples even if the ball does not have as much backspin.


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Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Posted 11 years ago

Hi Jeff, 

    Thank you, your advice and video are helpful in getting me back on good track to practice correct arm movement.

What I've found interesting is that I always tend to perform classic hard and fast top spin against back spin ball.

Despite the fact I do the more vertical movement, I still keep hitting the ball fast with heavy rubber contact,

by tending to overcome and neutralize back spin effect with speed and strength. I keep failing with balls in the net.

I could make lighter contact with ball, but I instinctively hit it hart to win the point at once. 

I saw couple of people doing perfect, low, heavy spin against any kind of chopped ball that is very hard to block or return.

I'm so eager to learn that so I can't stop imagining all kinds of arm movements and tips on how to improve the shot. :)


Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Posted 11 years ago

So long story short, probably I don't start the shot low enough and not brush the ball enough.

I simply don't have that nice, strong feeling that I'm going to place the ball well and win the point

like when I'm in position to hit nice strong top spin that I'm familiar with.


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 11 years ago

Hi Ivan,

I think the main thing that you should focus on is the brushing contact.  If you can get this contact first then you can start to focus on the control of the ball.  So get the spin contact right first and don't worry too much about where the ball is going.  You will start to get a nice feeling of the ball hitting the bat and the biting feeling into the rubber.  Once you feel comfortable with this then focus on placement. 


Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Posted 11 years ago

In addition to what you've said, I watched two videos: 'topspin vs block' and 'topspin vs topspin'.

Then I simply figured out a difference in Jeff's arm movement in both cases. 

Conclusion: Even against a block, topspin starts and finishes with bat more open as mine is, and more lower.

I will start with interpreting Jeff's topspin against block and then against push.

This will give me a feeling of how to brush the ball correctly. 

A single, key piece of info simply explained together with videos. Nice!

   Thank you Alois :)


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 11 years ago

No problems Ivan.  Let us know how you progress with it.


Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Posted 11 years ago

Hi Alois,

     After a couple of months training twice a week and participating in public tournaments as well, here are some results. 

I won against short pimple chopper simply by taking a loop on slow backspin balls a bit less aggressively, 

but very similar to top spin.

I was pushing long side spin serves on short pimples and attacking immediately with nice long spin.

The video that Jeff recommended helped a bit, since it is a nice "by the book" example.

Tonight in a gym, I had first feeling about a having all pieces put together in a nice, smooth hit:

Getting lower, hitting the ball at the table height, not to strong and keeping hand relaxed, with a bit of side spin.

So the theory started to be motion with feeling which is great! I still don't know what to do with fast block return,

but I'm sure things will start to improve by having more aggressive shots and different ball placements. Thank you guys!


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 11 years ago

Hi Ivan.  That is a good update, thanks.  It sounds like thing are progressing well then. It is nice when you get the feeling that the pieces are falling into place.

For the topspin against a fast block, keep the same brushing contact but get your stroke more over the ball so that you are keeping the ball lower.

Well done.  Keep us in the picture.


Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Posted 11 years ago

Hi Alois :)

    You've maid very good point on having more over the ball shots. 

But there is something else that I keep noticing about arm motion.

Impression is that I will be able to perform more faster and powerful shot

if my forearm and upper arm form 90 degrees in the moment of stroke start.

I was hitting the ball with palm more away from the body, 

which works good enough for top spins against counter hit or block.

Once I moved the arm closer to the body, I gain arm speed and freedom, but not control.

Should I practice the shot that way? I hope I put this in a way so you can follow the story,

I just wish to be sure I'm doing right with this practice, since I find it very crucial to my game.

Thank you! :)


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 11 years ago

Hi Ivan,

I think I follow you.  I think starting the arm at 90 degrees will make it more difficult to get consistency and later speed as well.  The bigger arm action will allow you to generate more speed because the longer lever will allow greater speed at the end of it.

Stay with the bigger arm action for better control and ultimately, better speed.


Ivan Kopcanski

Ivan Kopcanski Posted 11 years ago

 

I agree with what you said, because long stroke with more opened elbow makes the stroke easier to remember and adopt.

So you helped me to realize that that elbow angle should be 90 degrees when bat hits the ball, not at the stroke start.

I've realized that the elbow angle depends on position I'm in.

The further I'm away from ball the wider elbow angle it is, since I need to reach the ball to hit it. 

Opposite to that, elbow angle is smaller when I'm closer to the ball.

So this leads to the crucial conclusion that I need to improve my footwork a bit,

so I'll be able to perform the same stroke over and over again when the ball is in "sweet spot" in front of me. 

Thanks Alois for patience and pointing me in good direction :) Can't wait to practice those conclusions :)


Alois Rosario

Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 11 years ago

No problems Ivan.  That is good thinking.  Let us know how it all works.



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