Tensor or chinese
Equipment
Ardak . Asked 3 years ago
Hi, coach!
I know, I shouldn't focus on the equipment, I need to focus on the trainig and the technique. But I want to ask a question about equipment again. I need to decide which rubbers should I use.
When I play with chineese rubbers it is very comfortable to receive serves. Serve receiving and push battles don't bother me. I can return many balls safely, hard to attack. But my topspin game worsens. When I play with chineese rubbers, I lose almost every player which have long pimples. But I win many players with inverted rubbers, even though I lose them when I play with tensor rubbers.
When I play with tensor rubbers, I hate to receive some difficult serves, it is bouncy. But with tensors I win many players, especially players with long pimples which I lose them with chineese rubbers.
Which rubbers should I use ? Use chineese rubber and improve topspin? Use tensor rubber and learn serve receiving and other strokes?
Alois Rosario Answered 3 years ago
Hi Ardak,
That is a difficult one because the different rubbers feel good for different parts of the game. For me the serve and return are key so I would favour that but it is for you to make that choice as to what you are completely comfortable with.
Thoughts on this question
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Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Thank you, coach!
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Hi, coach!
Is it easier to receive serves with slower tensor rubbers? My current tensor rubbers seem very fast: Nittaku fastarc G-1 and Xiom vega japan. I read some reviews about yasaka rakza 7, tibhar MX-S. Can they help to receive difficult serves?
D K Posted 3 years ago
Ardak,the thing which affects the receiving is your own skill.
With enough skill,you can have good receive skills with ANY rubber.
Chinese rubbers,as far as I heard,are more difficult tocontrol when it comes to faster strokes.
Having tested DHS PF4,I think I can confirm that,but I havent played with Hurricanes or other Chinese rubbers.
I have heard that Xiom Vega is harder to control as well. I have no info about Nittaku rubbers,as they are unavailable at my place.
Alois says serve and receive are the most important strokes-that is surely true.
I personally have chosen my equipment based on my style.
Because you use in-rally strokes much more often than a serve and receive....
These are two extremes of choice.
But as wise coach Alois also says,it is your choice,and as usual,the truth lies in-between.
I would say that the best choice is the rubber with which you have balanced rally skills and serve/receive skills.
From your description I feel like you have problems with reading the spins.
Why I think so:
Chines rubbers are hard and usually not so sticky. That iswhy you can receive better with them: they do not react to spin that much,and they rather use thesponge to generate spin. Thanks to that,they allow better variance of spin. BUT: it requires a great technique. Chinese players DO have a perfect technique,it is the first thing they focus on when they start playing,and move forward when and only when they have perfect technique.
Bouncy Tensors,which are usually Japanese/European,use different approach. They tend to have thicker rubber part of the rubber,and are softer,which makes them much more spin-sensitive. The reason is to make the spin-creation easier. That limits the variance. But the spins can be created more easily even without proper technique.
I do nto use Chinese rubber,but I have gone my way from very soft rubbers to very hard rubbers.
What do you think,Alois?
Nigel C Posted 3 years ago
Dk, surley you meant to say chinese rubbers are more sticky than tensors and they use the top sheet to generate spin? Hence chinese players tend to brush loop with longer strokes.
D K Posted 3 years ago
Well,the PF4,the only Chinese rubber I ever wielded,was quite dusty while new,and I have read several reviews of Hurricane saying that.
I am sorry if I am mistaken.
Nigel C Posted 3 years ago
Dk, oh I'm not an expert i could be wrong! Im only going by the super friendship 729fx and 729 battle ii i have used, the first is tacky and the 2nd very sticky. More important is the truth you said that it is all about technique. I found that chinese rubber makes serve returns harder than the tensors I use now (vega pro, tibhar aurus) if my technique was better I think I'd not struggled so much with the chinese rubbers. I think I'm odd and many will find chinese rubbers better for serve returns.
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Hi, D K and Nigel C ! Thank you for your opinions!
Of course, my technique is bad, that's why I can't receive difficult serves. I am trying to improve it. But it is sad (annoying) when I lose only because of serves. Because in the other components I feel that I am better than many players. Yesterday, in the weekly tournament, I lost in the semifinal. In the first set I won easily 11:3. Then he saw that I can't receive mid-short sidespin serve with backspin... I can return it by spinny chop or push, but it is high to loop it. I tried to return it by topspin, but since there is backspin and it is not long or high enough, my topspins went to the net.
D K, many people takes nittaku fastarc G-1 as alternative to tenergy 05, but little bit slower.
Hi, coach!
Will slower rubbers like yasaka rakza 7 and tibhar MX-S help to receive difficult serves? Will they do a big difference? I mean is it worth to try them? On the other side I don't want to spent too much money for experiments.
Nigel C Posted 3 years ago
Ping, I found that many of the problems I had and sometimes still do is not being relaxed enough. If i tense up I tend to prod at the ball and not make a smooth stroke. This could be why your returns are high. Get someone to serve at you and experiment with ways of returning until you find one that keeps the ball low and gets you into the kind of rally you like. If you practise you will improve.
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Thank you, Nigel C. I will try to return serves relaxed. But the second advise is very hard for me. Because there is no such player who can serve such difficult serves in my sorroundings, id est in the club where I play. In the tournaments I play opponents from different clubs, they won't practice with me because I am an "enemy" (opponent) for them.
D K Posted 3 years ago
To be honest,I would have to test higher level Chinese rubbers to truly make my opinion on this.
Friendships are "lower rank" Chinese rubbers,but true,they have extremely sticky sheet.
Is it true for Hurricanes? I have no idea,they are very rare here.
The most used rubbers here are BTY Tenergy,Yasaka Rakza,Donic Acuda,Palio Blitz,Yasaka Mark,Stiga Innova,Stiga CLipper,TSP Curl P1R,BTY Feint Long.
Ardak,the most important thing with receiving is the ability to read it,and as Nigel correctly says,having relaxed hand.
In some cases,I was able to triple!!! the bounce height of my push against opponent's sidespin (almost purely) serve just by failing to get relaxed.
Yasaka Rakza7 is a rubber I have started with and I have more experience with it than with any other rubber.
I do not think it will make difference though compared to Tenergy or similar level inverted rubbers.
THe main thing is a skill.
Tibhar MX are said to be really great control rubbers.
I havent played with them,but I have played against them and I think they are also really good.
They are said to be used by Vladimir Samsonov,a master of control.
Regarding the high back/side spin serve,there are several options:
1)flick
As you seem to KNOW the spin of the serve,you can adjust and use a flick against it,since yo usay it is higher,so it MUST be flickable.
2)over-table loop
Maybe a bit harder,depends on how high and short the serve actually is,but I believe it is possible.
3)half-volley push
That should eliminate the jump,and set you up for more convenient ball,as you seem to be more skilled at attacking lower balls (like me :P )
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Thank you D K !
I said the ball gets high after I return. The serve is very low and it is not short. It doesn't bounce twice on my side of the table, but it falls down very close to the table. If it was little higher then I could do over-table loop. If it was little longer then I could return it by topspin nicely.
Next time, I will try all possible types of receiving just to learn receiving. I will risk without thinking about winning. The last time I didn't want do "try-error" experiments, because victory was very important for me, because it was semifinal, if I have passed to the final I might transferred to the next league. So, I received those serves by chopping, sometimes he failed to loop it. So it was the most safe serve returnung that time.
D K Posted 3 years ago
Ah,so I misunderstood your explanation,as you said "Then he saw that I can't receive mid-short sidespin serve with backspin"
If your receive gets high,then you probably open the bat too much.
And it is maybe not so "backspin" as you say in that case.
Even no-spin serves can be pushed if they do not have too much momentum.
In the end,there are only a few types of strokes which can be used to receive: topspin,chop,push and flick.
In case of "mid-short" or also called half-long serves,it is very important to know what you want to do with which serve.
They can be difficult to deal with due to them falling around the edge: too long to flick but too short for normal topspin.
Some players are capable of looping almost ANY ball that reaches over the edge. Yes,the attack is weaker,but the key is spin.
That requires,especially from beginning,quite delicate work with wrist and forearm.
If you want to push such a serve,the delicate work with wrist and forearm is also very important,because of the narrow space.
And to be honest,it applies for most receiving strokes,because receiving usually happens very close to the table and although the body work and footwork is also important,you do not have so much space.
For example,if you have perfect footwork and perfect body work,without a relaxed hand you still do not have the control over i.e. short push.
Of course,this is only one view and only my opinion.
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
"They can be difficult to deal with due to them falling around the edge: too long to flick but too short for normal topspin."
That was exactly in my case.
"If your receive gets high,then you probably open the bat too much. And it is maybe not so "backspin" as you say in that case."
I think there was backspin because my topspins went to the net. And there were mush sidespin, because when I chopped, the ball went to his forehand side. Id est, changed the direction.
Maybe my topspins went to the net due to the sidespin. I think the bat angle is wrong during my topspin. My topspins always go only to the FH corner of the opponent . I can do only that type of topspin so far. During the topspin I should have used the bat angle which will send to BH corner of the opponent. But for now, I can't do it yet.
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
But the topspin is risky, because it is low and falls around the table edge. Next time I will use pushes with relaxed wrist. And the key moment seems the bat angle. It is hard, but I need to close the required side. Because the serve comes to my FH side. And I need to use FH push which is unusual for me. I usually successfully receive sidespin serves which goes to his BH side (after my returning), using FH push.
Or I need to wait in the center, so that I can receive by BH push, which is easier to close the required side.
D K Posted 3 years ago
Ardak,there can also be technique flaw in your topspin,hard to tell without seeing.
The direction can also be affected by both incoming spin and technique flaw.
I found out that without proper body work,I tend to send all chops down the line,without being able to send it cross-court.
Maybe try to experiment with the bat angles and relaxing your arm.
I personally tend to use even math-like analysis of every stroke,but I would not consider that a good example :P everyone has to find his own :D
But the serve you are talking about seems to be what one player here calls a "dead point" serve.
Many players find it difficult to receive efficiently from this area.
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Thank you, D K.
Of course, my topspin has flaws. I admit that. Otherwise I would return any serve (with one bounce) by topspin. Anyway, I will write about my game with that opponent in the future.
Ardak . Posted 3 years ago
Hello, everyone!
Recently I tried Rakza 7 (thickness 2 mm). It is an awesome rubber. With this rubber receiving serves was much easier and has good control compared to fast rubbers like fastarc G-1, tibhar mx-p, tenergy , etc. Maybe because it is only 2 mm thin, I don't know. And it is much faster than hurricane 3. Now it is ideal rubber for me. I think I will stick to rakza 7. When I played this rubber I won many strong players, many club-mates were shoked.
D K Posted 3 years ago
Great to hear Ardak. Rakza is much morepermissive to technique flaws than powerful Hurricane,which requires a really complete technique to utilize its true potential.
Alois Rosario from PingSkills Posted 3 years ago
Ardak, Great to hear you have found something that works for you.
Tanya Zhurikova Posted 1 week ago
From my experience, Chinese tacky rubber is only good for controlling in touch play. When receiving, the tacky surface is very spin-sensitive because the ball only need to contact the top-sheet to impact spin. Meanwhile, grippy, tensor rubbers need the ball so sink into the sponge, and the deeper the ball Is sunk, the more spin-sensitive is. You found the spin didn't bother you when playing with Chinese rubber because the opponent's spin is not high enough to really affect your push/receive. If the opponent serve medium or heavy spin to your side, or even side spin, you have to adjust your racket angle. But i think it's not entirely true to say that tacky rubber is harder to use than tensor rubber. In dropshot, tensor rubber is harder to keep the ball short and bouncy twice on the table, and in chopping, it producesa lower arc. ANd in touchplay ,is so tough