Forehand Topspin Off Backspin

what will happen if I use it against a block?

Hi Joshnathan,

Against a block you don't need to lift the ball as much so you can make the stroke more horizontal.  Take a look at our lesson on the Forehand Topspin Against Block.

just awesome!

i think it's just like the forehand topspin against block ... isn't it ? if it's not , would u plz tell me wt the difference between them more clearly ..

COOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

How to hit backhand smash

If the ball is high enough to smash you should try to get around and make a forehand smash as this is more reliable and you can generate more power as well.

If you are caught, start with your bat high and come through flat on the contact.  Relax the wrist for extra speed.

when I apply this stroke, the ball goes off the table....

And when i keep the bat low, the ball goes into the net.......

Hi Aasim,

I would say you need to get more brushing contact on your stroke. This will lift the ball with the spin and then the spin will dip the ball back down onto the table.

how to ick a tomhawak serve please tell

HI Anirudh,

You need to watch the contact.  The main thing is that it will always have sidespin.  Then you need to watch whether it has backspin or topspin with it.  If the y come over the ball it will have topspin and if they come slightly under the ball it will have backspin.

what will happen if i do a backspin over a backspin?

what will happen if i do a backspin over a backspin?

Hi Kier,

You can do a backspin ball to a backspin.  This is called the Backhand Push.

Would puting a woodenn board against the table be a good way to practice? I've tried that and it does create a lot of backspin when i topspin the ball

i put it at a close angle slightly

If you can get the angle right consistently then you will get a simple way of practicing.

ynx sir Alois

hi Alois,

how do you ungroove the movement of the topspin against backspin when you are doing the topspin against block? i have practised many hours on the topspin against backspin non-stop and i can't seem to get rid of the action now. all my tospins and loops are becoming more and more vertical, thus scoring more and more out!:( also, at my school, they have a table but the bats they bought are basicly hard bats! they can NOTimpart any where near enough spin for me! the robot's is still 26 weeks away, so please help! I DESPERATE! i am going to the HWATT training camp too. Could you try and be there between the 28-30 of december, that's my training time!

Regards, Jonathan

What about the bat angle on this stroke? Should it be flat or a little closed?

That will depend on the amount of backspin on the ball.  The more backspin the more open you can have your angle.

Hi alois,

I have a little bit problem about chopping backspin and sidespin, 

Sometimes my chop comes into sidespin,

If i Give it much more power, the ball goes out....

Please help me on this

Thx

Try using the stroke we show you in our lessons on the Backhand Push and the Forehand Push.  They are not meant to be powerful strokes.  Because you are generating backspin, the ball will not dip quickly. They are designed to keep the ball low and to a strategic position to allow you to gain the advantage in the rally.

To stop the sidespin make sure your bat is going straight through to where you want the ball to go.

What should I do if the ball is short?

Hi Ethan,

If the ball is short you can try the Backhand Push.

Hi guys im wanting to know for someone like me and my style of playing i use alot of energy in all my shots soon tiring myself out anything to help me loosen up......i feel the more i put in the fastest the ball will go....but then i see kids who play make it look effortless, just a kiwi looking for some guidance thanks guys and great job.....

Hi Xavier,

Often when you try too hard you tighten up.  You will find that your arm will move fastest when they are relaxed.  As soon as you feel yourself tightening up, focus on the area that you feel is tight.  Just for a second, think about keeping that loose.  The first muscle that usually tightens is the shoulder.

When you tighten up your muscle don't fire in the natural way and you are then almost fighting against them to make the stroke happen.  In training, start by playing your strokes slowly.   WHile doing the stroke really focus on the tension and relaxation in your arm and body.  As you start to speed up the stroke, feel which muscles are trying to hard and turn them off.

See how this works for you.

Thank you for your knowledge greatly appreciated all the way from N.Z.....i will have to put the hulk away he gets me into trouble and i will use all these helpful tips to improve my game.....thank you again Alois

No problems... see Australians aren't that bad after all.

Hi Alois,

With a basic bat non-customized bat from GKI I can fairly do a forehand topsin off a backspin. But with my new customized bat (Donic sonex jp gold and GKI  Euro jumbo rubbers) I am not able to control the shot. The ball just doesn't stick to the bat. With the basic bat I can feel the ball sticking on to the bat. The new bat is too fast for me and I am not able to impart spin.

Do you suggest that I get back to my old bat?

Thanks,

Amith

Is it possible to counter a topspin with a backspin chop?

Amit,

Allow yourself time to adjust to the faster bat.  Give it a few weeks at least and then see if you are able to control it.  If not then you can change back to your previous bat.

it's clear that is easy against light backspin but what about too much heavy backspin?

The same principles apply.  Just make the stroke more vertical and faster action to lift the heavier ball.  That is why we teach this stroke because it can be adapted to different amounts of spin.

Thank you so much for this video. I used to have trouble returning a backspin but this video really helped me out to improve on that.

Good to hear that Esteban.

Hi, Coaches!

I can do only slow topspin against backspin. (finally) I have learned it a week ago.  Is it true technique to learn slow topspin and trying to add speed on it? Or the technique of fast topspin is very different? Thank you.

Hi Ardak,

It is important to get the slow technique first so you have done well to get that right.

Then to make it faster you can just swing through faster using the same stroke.  You can also try to hit the ball slightly flatter to get more speed.

Hi coaches,

When I do slow topspin against backspin I keep my wrist relaxed. Without it I can't do it. Is it correct?

In this vedeo it seems that coach Jeff doesn't keep his wrist relaxed and his strokes are more powerfull....

Hi Ardak,

If you have a relaxed wrist that is fine. You can learn to use it faster while still staying relaxed with the wrist.

Hi, coach Alois Rosario!

Thank you.I tried to swing through faster using the same stroke.  Now I can do faster topspins. Not allways succesfull, but better than before.

Well done.

its nice. I like it

It's good. i like it

can you demonstrate how to topspin the long heavy backspin sidespin serve

Hi Martin,

Take a look at this previous Ask the Coach video response on How to return a long sidespin serve.

is this perhaps the toughest stroke to master?

Personally I don't think so but it may be for some players.  I find the Backhand Topspin much harder.

The main catch in this stroke is the "brushing" part. How can I master that? Whenever I try hitting a topspin,I get the speed nut not the spin(which is obviously more important). Please suggest a way for me to practice this.

Thanks in Advance

Hi Alois,

When I use the forehand topspin the ball will have a lot of topspin but that won't kick in until te ball is about a foot off the end of the table. I've tried slowing down the stroke but that will allow for an easy return (which I'm pretty isn't the point of the stroke) and when I try to brush the ball more it helps a little bit but not enough to keep it on the table when I speed it up. I'm trying to get my forehand topspin strong so I am confident to use it whenever I feel the need to in a rally.

Hi Drew,

What sort of rubber are you using?

See if you can generate a bit more spin on the ball by allowing the ball to sink into the rubber.

At the moment I am using a premade east point bat with pips out rubbers since it am still new to table tennis (I am not sure wheather or not they are long pips or short but they are about 2-5 millimetres) but I think that may be the problem which I'm guessing would mean I won't be able to get a strong forehand topspin until I get a new bat.

Hi Drew,

Yes that will be the problem.  See if you can get yourself a bat that has some Inverted rubber on it.  This will allow you to spin the ball well.

The one we have is the PingSkills Rook.

As it turns out the rubber wasn't the problem, it was teying to hit the stroke without anyone hitting a ball to me. (So pretty much just bouncing it and trying to play the stroke) I realized this when I played me dad who had played a ton of table tennis in college and my forehand topspin got me a lot of points and helped me to actually beat him.

I have trouble doing this and always hit the ball long. Hitting when the ball is short and doesn't cross the end the table it hard. Am I supposed to use my wrist?

Try using your wrist but if that doesn't help than go back to how you were doing it and maybe get a coach to help you. I use my wrist and I have a fast low fore hand topspin. Anouther thing you could try is trying to brush the ball more. I to used to have a bad forehand topspin then I focused more on brushing the ball and trying to drive through the ball and now my opponents do everything possible to avoid hitting to my forehand. Good luck and I hope that helped somewhat!!

There are zero coaches in where I live.

How does this differ from hitting a loop? The angle and length of the stroke looks the same to me. What am I missing?

A Loop and Topspin against backspin are the same thing.  You are missing nothing...

why do u give as a reflect smash video 

To return the forehand topspin shown in this video use either the:

• forehand block or;
• backhand block

Thank you for the video but is this really a loop or a topspin.

Hi Joaquin,

A lot of people use the term topspin or loop interchangeably. Some people say a loop is a slower more spinny shot. Don't worry about the terminology too much, the important thing is to learn the basics correctly then you can play great shots and call them what you like!

Also take a look at the video answer to a previous question about the terms for different types of loops.

Very nice. Jeff's elbow is bent, shouldn't it be straight down elbow and forehand in one line? Thanks a lot. 

Hi Artiom,

Jeff does start with a more bent elbow.  It is OK for more control of the stroke.  If you want to open out the elbow more you will generate more power.

Hi there,

When I make contact nicely I play this shot great, but often, it flies off the top of my bat. Do you know why that happens and how should I improve?

Thanks!

Hi Arul,

Work on the contact of the ball.  Start with getting your bat to move more forward at the ball to ensure a better contact.  This happens with trunk rotation.  By rotating your bat is moving more forward.  Then you can work on the lifting of the bat to generate the topspin.

Also make sure you are watching the ball carefully to get a better contact.

Hi Alois and Jeff,

Thank you for a very nice video.

It's really useful the stroke is filmed from a lot of different angles and in slow motion.

Thank you very much for such good videos, coaches!  My topspin against backspin is improving. Working on contact of the ball.

During the game it is hard to hit the backspins by topspin, but during the multiball it is not hard as in the game.

Great Video Guys.

What happens if you do backspin against backspin?

I find it easy, but should I use it, is it good or bad???

Hi Maahir,

It is better to be able to play the topspin because it then puts you in the attacking position in the rally.  Playing a backspin is OK if your opponent doesn’t have a strong attacking stroke.

Thanks

And how can i alter my strokes to chop a backspin? (I mean really CHOP not push,I am taling about creating a powerful backspin stroke from the opponent's backspin)

how move the legs to be in good position? the left ahead, the right  behind or the two together? I watch your vidéos every day a lot of things to learn?

Hi Martinand,

Try to move them both together.  This is the fastest way.

thanks coach

What is the difference in playing topspin against a push stroke against a ball which has a lot of backspin and and a ball which has little or no backspin . is there any difference in timing for these two . please help !

Hi Anantha,

The biggest difference is that to lift the backspin your stroke will need to be more vertical. They are very similar strokes.

Alois, I always hit the ball withe top of my bat and have it fly out of the table. How  an I prevent this?

Watch the ball carefully.  It can be as simple as that.

The timing is very fast so by watching the ball carefully it will give you the best chance to make a good contact.

Good day, is there a need for using your wrist to generate more spin upon ball contact?

For the forehand topspin it is not the most critical element. Concentrate on the start and finish positions and let your wrist come through naturally. We talk more about this in the advanced forehand topspin video.

I am sorry if I am bothering,but I just want to ask about one stroke of my last opponent:he used a stroke that was played purely with a wrist,on the forehand,against low and long balls.That stroke was very fast but did not seem to contain any stronger spin.
That stroke was faster than my weak smash.
Was it a forehand topspin? :O
I was confused

It sounds like he was generating topspin on the ball but I wouldn't recommend anyone play the stroke like that.

Although it must be learnable,as he could do 3 out of 4 balls succesfully.
But I am not sure about the spin.
I blocked it with vertical bat.
But I usually blocked it next to the table

Hi pingskills,

In this video you taught me to come more upwards, but my coach wants me to come forwards with more power. How do I do that? Every time I have my bat coming forwards, I will hit the net. My coach say it's possible, but how

Try what he is saying and see how it works.  Perhaps you are going too far upwards.

My coach say this too.
But I see it as a disadvantage.
Faster loop means faster passive block.
This is what I want to avoid.
Is it correct?

Also,when i try to do it,it is always an edge.

No Dk, if you place it well in the corners or into the middle so that they can't block it back. But I Think the real disadvantage is the lower margin for error. You might hit with more power, but you have a bigger chance of hitting the net because of the backspin. By the way, how are your eyes

I am talking about opponents of the kind "fast hand no legs" meaning that they do not move but have learned to somehow insert their bat everywhere.
I myself have many times blocked powerful loop at the extremes or middle.
But I am slow partly due to my poor eyes.
And my opponents are fast,very fast compared to me.
I have watched pingSkills Anticipation video,but what Alois describes does not work for me,my eyes are too bad.
Alois said that if I watch the ball,I can see the opponent with my peripheral vision.
There are two "but":
1)If i watch a ball when it touches my bat,my opponent is completely out of my eyesight range.
Maybe I take the ball too far behind me?
(=I am "pointing" to my opponent with my left ear)
2)and secondly,with my bad eyes,I can see only a swirling mist with my peripheral vision.
I can find out that there is a human in front of me,but I have no cue where exactly he/she is and what exactly is he/she doing.

(or with the first sentence-there are also players who can move very fast on their legs and i cannot do a loop or even a smash that is fast enough to go past them)

Dk, I have the solution to your bad eyes. If your still playing chopping, you should change. Why? I have a friend that play chopping like you. I watch her play. She isn't that good with her chopping like you. Her opponent is attacking like crazy she can't even chop back and her eyes are normal. Even a person with normal eyes can't return it. So what I suggest you to do is to watch pingskills's "advanced forehand topspin" and then work on your third ball attack. What you are aiming for is to do 10 successful third ball. How do you know it's successful? Is that your third ball attack doesn't get blocked back. If blocked back, that's a fail third ball. And also try to work on your 4th ball do even if your opponent has the serve, you still have the advantage of attacking first. 

Remember, prevention is better than cure, that's what alois said. We should always try to prevent attacks rather than returning one. Your chopping style only request for more attacks. The key is to try to keep the ball as low and as short as possible to prevent attack

Of course I practise attacking too.
But I do not think that there is possibility of having an unblockable attack.
No player has an unblockable loop.
Even Ryu Seung Min's loops can be blocked and he is said to have the most powerful loop,especially against chop.
It is hard to block,but still possible.

And I do not believe that your (surely nice) friend is better than me.
Everyone is.

I know...but this contradicts with my need to slow the game down :((

about that attack....
I am just trying to make sure that I do not need it very often.

Dk, if you place the ball into the corners, you are actually hitting the ball away from them. They have to move to reach it and when they move they will open up one side and you can then attack to that open . In training, put a plastic bottle and fill it with some water to make it heavier. Yuen lthen place it at the corner of the table. Now this act like a target. Try to knock it down. The water makes the bottle heavier and makes it harder to knock down, that means you need to add more power in order to knock it down. Not saying is 100% unlockable, just making it harder to block .Even if blocked back, he might put it higher for you to smash or open the table.

You don't have to Slow the ball down if you finish the point fast. Try to end the rally in 3 balls and make sure you win it. Attacking is important but because of your eyes I guess but possible to defend fast balls so try the tips I gave you, then train it. 10 successful third ball attack. If block backed means unsuccessful. And the water battle thingie, ok?

Really hard
If a player is taught to play pressed at the table,he can reach almost whole table.
(Some of them are taught that their head should be always above the table,but I think it is stupid even for the most offensive players. This is just too close)
I must train really hard then...if they return it,I would not have time to notice an opening.

Plastic bottle....I must be a really weak player.
If the bottle is large,I have not enough power to knock down even the empty bottle.
No talk that I probably cannot hit so small target,but I will do my best.

your second comment:
yes,IF
But I need to slow the ball down in order to get opportunity to finish the point fast.

Of course I want to finish point with powerful blow,but first I want to tire my opponent wear him down by making his strongest attacks valueless.

Don't think too much dk, your opponents aren't as tough as you think, they aren't world class players so don't worry to much just try to force them into making errors and try to be as consistent as possible for your self, good luck

Compared to me,they are still really good.

And it is hard to be consistent when I can move fast but always start to move too late or I move in the wrong direction

Some problem for me, I'm very very good when I don't need to move. But once I move I will be unbalanced and become inconsistent. I guess the problem is to speed our footwork up and stay balance

I am close have enough speed for my level.
I just always find out the direction and time to move.

Or Ibecame inconsistent when the rally is too long and my opponent does not attack or attack with too much power.

And this greatly bothers me.
It should be my opponent who should become inconsistent first

Footwork is also a big problem for me. I maybe a fast runner but when it comes to table tennis, my footwork is slow. I am also easily tired when doing footwork drills. And for a strange reason, my footwork only works during drills, when I comes to a game or match, my footwork doesn't work and I start lunging here and there.

You see, even you yourself feel more inconsistent as the rally gets longer. That's why I told you to finish the point add early as possible. Try to finish the point in three balls. In table tennis, always think about yourself before thinking about others. If you feel less consistent in a long rally, then finish the point early even if long rallies are uncomfortable for your opponent. You must be ready to party a long rally before using it as about advantage. 

You have two choices here, one is to work on improving your consistency. Second Is to work on your third ball attack

Exactly my case.
With a robot who shows me three seconds earlier where he is going to shoot,I can keep my speed up.
In a match,I have no cues,I do not know where to go.

Tired...too....but only against the robot
Against a player,I never managed to move so fast.

You maybe did not read my message fully.
I do not feel consistent ONLY AND ONLY THEN,if my opponent generates too much or not enough power.
If my opponent uses average power loops,I am able to keep the rally continuing for maybe 20 sec.

If I try to finish the point early,I have a tendency to hurry,I am trying to move very fast close to the table and my chance of making an error is higher.
Isn't it equally bad??

I am training both,ratio about 4:1 (consistency:thirdball)

Yup I understand your pain about the footwork. I don't know of a way to fix it. 

And sorry for misunderstanding you. Yup exactly, you think chopping style does give you more time, yes but only if you are very very good with your chops and generating a tonne of backspin. Then you opponent might have to do what alois teaches in this video. If your opponent just come forwards and smack the ball in you, that's means you didn't generate enough backspin. Because usually, choppers are more difficult to handle than attackers for most people. Because choppers are very rare. In my town. I guess only 3 choppers. The rest all play attacking. Therefore people aren't getting enough experience against this style of play. How many choppers are there in your area? I know you have at least one. You mentioned a very good chopper but what are guys achievements?

That's the key, you should never try to rush. Practise more third ball attacks. Here's a training that might help you out. Start to get use to doing third ball attacks. First, you serve a short backspin serve, then ask your partner to push it long to your forehand. Then do the attack like how alois taught in this video. Do 20 successful third ball attacks then move on to the challenge I'm gonna give you. The challenge is to use any service. What you're aiming to do is to get your partner to misread your serve and put it higher and longer. He doesn't have to push it long like on the training drill I gave you just now. Now, he can do anything. He can push it short. He can even attacks you. If you fail to attack the third ball that means one fail attempt. And you must makes sure you're third ball attack wins the point. If blocked back also considered as a fail attempt. Do five third balls successfully and you is the challenge. There are a few ways to force yourself to be consistent. No.1 you only have 10 attempts. If you can't make 5 successful third ball attacks in these 10 attempts. Punish tired to do 20 push ups per third ball attack miss. For example you did 3 then punish yourself to do 40 as you miss two third balls n another way is to have endless attempts but 10 push ups per mistake. So you made 10 mistakes then do 100 push ups. The other way is to make 5 successful third ball attacks in a row. If you made a mistake when you have already done 4 successful third ball attacks in a row then restart from zero. I hope these tips can help you

Maybe Alois will know.

It is quite difficult to generate "tons of backspin",if you never encounter a topspin against pips.
And believe me,even powerful backspin can be "smacked" as you said.
I have both seen and tried and it is possible.
It is hard,it is equally hard to a sidespin smash off a long lob,but it is possible.

Yes,choppers are rare.
In my country,I know only one another chopper,if you do not count pushing and blocking codgars.
He is as old as me,maybe a month younger or older,and he is about 20th best in my country.

I do not understand your last sentence here.



Yes,I should never try to rush.
And if I attack,I ALWAYS rush.
I have done this drill for so many times prior getting long pips and less frequently I play it in present time,that I started to hate this drill.
Two years ago,I practised almost always this drill.
Any service....I have learned a service that I would not recommend anyone to push as if it was a backspin.
The problem is that most of them will not attack my serve, but they will wait for my third-bal and attack IT violently.
That is what many of use are taught.
Your challenge would work.
But the key is that my limit is 5 push-ups.
I can do my best,but I have never done more than 7 in one day.


Maybe we should find another way how to communicate.
I do not want to spam Mr.Coach Alois's videos

Haha I was thinking the same thing too. Let's find some where else to chat.....m cause just Now I went to Mr alois room and found a note that said he wants to kick us for spamming this chat

Do you have a facebook, we chat whatsapp or any apps that can allow us to communicate. I guess you can make a facebook so that we can communicate much easier. It's free and you can sign up just by doing a couple steps

Oh that is terrible.....

I have never wanted to  annoy the PingSkills Team...I am so ashamed,I am so sorry :((((

No,I do not have and cannot have facebook.

The only way I can think of is an e-mail: my email is great-polis@seznam.cz

Let's get out of here because my before alois and jeff arrive. For what I here jeff have large big muscles and can crush us. And alois is really accurate with his theirs and toss a ping pong ball at us......I will add you

Eugene,have you already tried the e-mail?

can we use the same trchnique for hitting forehand topspin against chop.please tell sir.

Yes this is the same technique Akshat.

How can I get a good brushing action on the forehand topspin against backspin? During training when my.coaches feed me light backspin, I can hit flat and still get it over. But during a real match when the opponent puts heavy spin. I can't lift it because I can't get a fine brushing contact in the ball. Please help me

Try to get your coaches to give you heavier backspin balls in training.  Then focus on brushing the ball fine and fast with lots of racket head speed to get the lift.

Dear Alios and Jeff, Can you please elaborate the brushing angles for top spin attack and loop , I am considerably good at forehand drives, request you to give some more simple tips on brushing angles to get accuracy on consistent top spin against back spin even I am still struggling to hit no spin attack with back spin , I want to forget my old wrong methods and wish to start from fresh to learn good top spin

Hi Dinesh,

Think about the 3 basics we talk about.  The start and finish positions are the first two things and then the contact is the next important thing.  You can do this was from the table as well so that you are just focusing on the contact.

Another idea that you can use is to put a stick about 2 meters above the net.  You can get 2 people to hold it there.  Then try to get the ball over the stick and onto the table.  To do this you will need to brush the ball well with a good contact.

I see many players doing a fake topspin against back spin where they don't put any topspin on the ball and the opponent is tricked into blocking it into the net . 

I'm about to lift with topspin but unable to lift the ball without any imparting any spin. 

What should I do when trying such a stroke ?

Hi Anantha,

You open the angle of the bat up and use the angle rather than friction of the rubber to lift the ball over. Take a look at this previous video response and see what we call this special shot... No spin loop

Hi coaches!

Finally, I can do forehand topspin against slow backspins. It took about 5 years to learn this stroke. Now I can easily do forehand topspins when I receive  a slow backspin serve and against slow backspin pushes. Now I have two questions:

1) My topspin is very spinny but slow and high.  Most of my opponents in my league can't cope with it. But today I played against a high qualified player who can easily loop my such topspins. I felt that I need to do faster and more powerful topspins. How to do it? I don't know what movements will help me to improve my topspin. Close the bat? then the ball will go to the net. Try to loop? very risky.  Try to do more horizontal stroke? then can't lift the ball...

2) I struggle when my opponent do very spinny fast long low pushes. In your video you usually do topspins against slow backspins. How to do topspin against very spinny fast long low pushes. Or is it safer to answers with pushes rather than topspin?

Ardak:

in my opinion you should close your bat more and speed up your swing.